THERE’S NO TERRITORIAL ISSUE – THERE’S FRIENDSHIP AND LOVE INSTEAD
Aram Gareginyan
ArmInfo
2009-04-30 16:54:00
Interview of Turkish publicist Adnan Oktar to ArmInfo
Editorial: The opinions of our interlocutor expressed below might seem
at least questionable and even provoking, because the Love propagated
by the author, for the nation which survived the Genocide, is a mere
verbiage, if there’s no Repentance.
Adnan Oktar was born in 1956 in Istanbul. In 1979, while studying in
the Mimar Sinan University in Istanbul, started to support religious
ideas, with a strict criticism of Darvinism and freemasonry. In the
1980s, started to publish books under the pen-name Harun Yahya. In
1990, founded the Scientific Research Foundation, in 1995 – Foundation
for Protection of National Values. In 1998, initiated an Anti-Darvin
campaign through the media and distribution of his books. In 2006,
published the book "The Atlas of Creation", translated into several
dozen languages.
How could the Nagorno-Karabakh issue influence the relations of
Armenia and Turkey?
The Armenians are our brothers and friends. The Armenian nation is a
very noble one. Armenians are artistic, kind and pleasant people. We
lived together, side by side, for centuries. We called them the Loyal
Nation and were very fond of our Armenian brothers. They artificially
split us apart.
There is only one preconditio n for the resolution of all the problems
between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey, and that is love. There is
nothing we cannot resolve, insha’Allah, if we love one another, treat
one another with compassion and protect each other. We will embrace
our Armenian brothers with love, eliminate the borders between us,
and they will come and settle here as they wish and we will go to
Armenia and open factories, hospitals and schools. We will make huge
economic and cultural progress together. In a climate in which there
are no borders, of joint investments, and in which a union and unity
based on love is established, the question of Nagorno-Karabagh and
all other disputes can be resolved, insha’Allah. In the same way
that our Armenians can come and settle and do business here, so
our Azeri brothers will be able to enter Nagorno-Karabagh as they
wish, insha’Allah. We will be able to leave here and go as far as
Yerevan and Baku without any border formalities. And our Armenian
brothers will be able to jump in his car in Yerevan and drive right
to Istanbul. Nobody will demand passports or visas. He will be able
to stay as long as he likes and live as he wished. We will all eat
together, and talk and enjoy ourselves, insha’Allah.
Turkey wishes to strengthen its role in the solution of the Nagorno
Karabakh problem. What does Ankara wish to obtain from that? Is
Turkey able to offer a com promise for both sides – at least for its
own interests?
Turkey will lead the way in the region in terms of friendship,
brotherhood and peace, insha’Allah. It will protect everyone,
Armenians, Georgians and Russians, like an older brother. Turkey will
have no self-interest in this. Its only gain will be the establishment
of peace, all the peoples of the region living in security, and to
see them living in happiness. And if anyone does come forward with
a secret plan based on self-interest, Allah will make sure that it
fails. Allah bestows success on sincere people.
Turkey genuinely wishes to establish peace and security in the region
and possesses the historic experience and social and cultural means
to do that.
It has its Ottoman experience, well-trained administrators and
a strong economy. If Turkey fails to act as older brother to the
countries in the region, despite possessing all these advantages,
it will be assuming a grave moral responsibility. Look at what
happened in Georgia recently. Rivers of blood were shed in a day or
two. Elderly people were left homeless in the streets. What need was
there for such suffering? Would such conflict have been possible if the
Turkish-Islamic Union had been established, if there was a powerful
Turkish-led alliance in the region? Any dispute will be resolved in
a matter of hours once the Turkish-Islamic Union is founded. All
the countries in the region are l iving with unnecessary fear and
tension, and that tension must be dispelled at once. That is why the
establishment of the Turkish-Islamic Union is essential.
Speaking in Ankara about the role of Turkey in the Karabakh conflict,
Barack Obama said that Turkey is the only country that can facilitate
peace and good relations between all the nations of the South
Caucasus. What are the reasons for such a statement?
Obama spoke the truth on that subject. Turkey is a country that
can assume leadership and establish peace in a wide area, in the
Middle East and the Balkans, not just in the Caucasus alone. To
be honest, there seems to be no other country apart from Turkey
capable of assuming that role. And if you notice, nobody has come
forward to volunteer. But by Allah’s leave Turkey has the moral
qualities and experience to discharge that duty. I am not talking
of any racial superiority. Any such idea would be incompatible with
the Qur’an. Allah bestows no good on anyone becoming involved with
a scourge like racism. In the sight of Allah, superiority lies in
taqwa (fear and awe of Allah). The important thing is moral beauty
and superiority. And the Turkish nation possesses excellent moral
values. Go to Anatolia and you will see real sincerity, loyalty,
altruism, devotion and friendship. You will see real respect. The
Turkish nation wants to serve, and it expects nothing in return. It
is enough for th e Turkish nation that other people be happy and
at peace. It will be easy to establish peace and security when such
moral values lead the way.
The US and Turkey seek to enforce their role in solving the Nagorno
Karabakh conflict – evidently, aiming to reduce the influence of
Russia. Could this lead to a collision of interests among those three
countries in the Caucasus?
Russia is a great and powerful state, a noble state. Any policy aimed
at excluding Russia would be a mistake. It would be a violation of good
conscience. There is no such conception in Turkey. There is no idea of
"Let us be strong but others not" or "Let us be rich and others poor"
in Turkey. The Russians need to be told "You, as Russians, must develop
as you like in economic, scientific and political terms and here,
let us also develop in these fields and enjoy all kinds of advantages
together." They need to be told "We want to be wealthy, and we want you
to be wealthy, too." What kind of Turkish-Islamic Union would it be if
Russia were poor, for instance? Would that be a union of peace of mind?
Would that make us happy? It would clearly make us all uneasy, because
we want them to be wealthy, as well. A happy Russia will make us
happy, too.
What is your vision of the relations of Armenia and Turkey in the
future? Do you expect opening of the border and establishing diplomatic
relations? Will Ankara be willing to do all that?
ADNAN OKTAR: We want this, and insha’Allah it will happen. What
matters is the friendship of their peoples and what they think. The
Armenian people do not want enmity and are made uneasy by enmity. They
want love, compassion and respect. The Turkish people also detest
enmity. We want to live with the Armenians as brothers. We want no
borders between us. We want to embrace our Armenian brothers. Why
should there be borders between us and an innocent, excellent
people? Why should we be divided? We lived together for centuries.
It was the stratagems of the masons and materialists that divided
us. But those stratagems have now been thwarted, and we are in an
age of love and brotherhood. Because it can happen at once if both
sides desire it. Let us constantly demand it, and let our Armenian
brothers constantly demand it, and let us finally do away with the
borders. Armenia is squeezed into a tiny space and its economy is in
a difficult position. Let us work hand in hand and build a brand new,
wealthy, prosperous and enlightened Armenia.
Describe your concept of the Turkish-Islamic Union. Does it imply
political or spiritual unity? What are the conditions for Turkey
to conduct a leading role in this alliance, or will everyone be a
leader? What consequences may it bring about? What is your opinion
about the possibility of reconci liation between Turkey and Iran?
This is a union of love, a union of hearts. A laic, democratic,
enlightened union. It is an idea based on love, with nothing to do
with racism or arrogance, that loves all nations and wishes to protect
them, that opens its arms to Christians and Jews and that is intensely
keen to include them in the Turkish-Islamic Union. It harbors no such
idea as "we are the greatest and most powerful race, so other races
are nothing." Allah creates all races. We are all brothers. Russia
will greatly benefit from the Turkish-Islamic Union. We already want
to see Armenia in the Turkish-Islamic Union, and Georgia. We even
want Israel to be a part of the Turkish-Islamic Union. Turkey is
the natural leader of this union. The source of our admiration for
the Turkish nation lies in its moral superiority, not in any racial,
blood or biological superiority. The Turkish nation is a very noble,
intelligent, heroic, courageous, altruistic, patient and immaculate
one. And it displayed this leadership quality in Ottoman times. Allah
rendered them as a leader. And now, no matter where you ask, in America
or Europe or Islamic countries, who should lead the Islamic world,
they will say Turkey.
Ask the peoples of the Caucasus which country’s leadership they would
prefer to unite under, which country they like. They will say they
like Turkey very much and would prefer the Turkish state to act
as their older brother and guide. They will say we should unite,
that every state should remain independent and free internally, but
that Turkey should be their older brother and spiritual leader. They
will say that salvation lies in Turkey, not in America or Russia,
insha’Allah. This is not racism, but a feature. I mean, in appointing a
manager somewhere, one appoints the most talented, capable individual,
doesn’t one? One brings in a civil engineer when constructing a
building. But not on a racist basis. It is nothing to do with any
racial superiority. It stems from that person’s abilities. I am also
laying some stress on the moral values of the Turkish nation. That is
why I think the Turkish nation should act as leader. I speak with many
prominent Iranians, and they all genuinely want the Turkish-Islamic
Union and believe it should be built under Turkish leadership. It
appears from many recent developments that Iran has adopted a positive
attitude toward the issue. For example, when President Ahmadinajad came
to Istanbul he prayed in an Ottoman mosque behind a Sunni imam, saying
"This is an important message." What is that message? "As a Shiite,
I support the spiritual leadership of a Sunni." It was again Turkey
that brought America and Iran together in Ankara in recent months.
That means that Iran trusts Turkey, and wants Turkey to be to the
fore. That much is plain.
You also say that "the Turkish-Islamic Union will commence with the
membership of Azerbaijan, Armenia, Syria, Iraq and Iran, eventually
followed by the whole Arab-Turkic-Islamic world as separate states,
but merging in respect of the spiritual leadership of Turkey". Do
you think Armenia does have a place there, and why?
Armenia being left out on its own would make us uneasy; they are also
our brothers. Because we have a shared history with the Armenians,
with a totally artificial enmity forming only subsequently. The
Nagorno-Karabagh problem, the Nahchivan affair, these are totally
artificial issues produced by the masons to divide the two countries,
because there is no territorial problem there, only a question of
friendship and of love. The Turkish-Islamic Union will naturally
include Armenia. The Armenians will also enter the union, because
Armenians were the most heroic people in Ottoman times, rendering
excellent services in art and science in the Ottoman Empire. Armenians
gradually rose to the highest positions at court and are also a
People of the Book. That means they are people who believe in Allah
and the same prophets. The rules regarding the People of the Book are
clear. That is why this artificial enmity must be strongly avoided,
and we must hasten to establish the union by unilateral forgiveness,
by adopting a policy of love and affection. That is why we merely
have to say, "Yes, we20want this union," and everything will fall
into place once we say it.
How do you imagine the co-existence of Islam, Christianity and Judaism
in the world, in the Middle East, and in Turkey? What do you think
about the opportunities for coexistence of Turks and ethnic minorities
– Greeks, Assyrians, Armenians – in Turkey? Is there another way of
peaceful coexistence rather than assimilating minorities?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is no assimilation in Islam. Under Islam, people
of every faith and opinion can live, express their ideas and worship
in complete freedom. According to the Qur’an, Christians and Jews are
the People of the Book. And according to the Qur’an, one can marry
them, eat their food or food they have prepared, and go and dine
in their homes. One can be their guests and talk with them and stay
in their houses, or they can stay in ours. What does that mean? It
means a strong bond of friendship and brotherhood. And that is how
it should be.
What are the main issues that Turkish society faces today – material,
intellectual, spiritual or moral?
The worst corruption of our age is Darwinism and materialism. People
being unhappy, living in pain and suffering, and all the wars,
fighting, conflict and economic troubles are the product of the
ruthlessness, selfishness and greed indoctrinated by Darwinism and
materialism. The full realization of the invalidity of Darwi nism will
mean an end to many of the scourges afflicting people. There will be
no terror, conflict, poverty, hunger or oppression in a world without
Darwinism. Thanks be to Allah, the Turkish nation is very aware on this
subject, and Turkey is the country with the lowest level of belief
in Darwinism in the world. In the 1970s, 70%-80% of people believed
in Darwinism. That is now no greater than 5%. There has been a major
rising of awareness on the subject across the world. Following the
arrival in Europe of the book the Atlas of Creation in particular, a
huge change of opinion has begun there. This is clear in opinion polls.
What is your opinion of Ergenekon, the PKK and ASALA?
Ergenekon was a scourge that caused disaster everywhere, not just
in Turkey, but also in the Turkic states, the Caucasus, and the
Balkans. Now, thanks be to Allah, the Turkish state has, in the
real sense of the word, taken the matter in hand. Ergenekon was
not born yesterday, but is a criminal enterprise going back at
least a hundred years. It goes back to the time of Mustafa Suphi,
founder of the Communist party of Turkey. It is an organization run
by freemasonry. Freemasonry uses such organizations to shed blood,
set brother against brother, incite wars and spread corruption. This
is a well-known masonic tactic. Ergenekon, the PKK and ASALA are all
masonic organizations. They are godless, scriptureless, faithless,
fanatical a nd cruel organizations, violent and ruthless. They are
organizations that delight in spilling blood and inflicting suffering,
that even kill their own supporters and cause them to live in fear
and violence, faced with the threat of death. It is a known fact they
are all allied with one another.
But it is now the end of the days of the shedders of blood. Ergenekon
has been caught red-handed, and the hearings are still going on. The
state will produce the best outcome within the bounds of the law. The
fight against the PKK also has to be supported with intellectual
activities. Military actions alone would yield no results. Because
these people engage in ideological propaganda and subject people to
Marxist-Stalinist indoctrination. It seems impossible to resolve
the problem unless intellectual barriers are also erected. Just
like the PKK, ASALA is also a Marxist-Stalinist organization, and
collaborated with the PKK. The only way to oppose such terrorist
groups is by anti-Darwinist, anti-materialist and anti-communist
cultural activities. No country in the region can say that the PKK is
not its problem, and neither can anyone say that about ASALA. These
organizations are a grave threat to every nation in the region. ASALA
does not seem to be active at the moment, but give them the slightest
opportunity and they will raise their heads again. The PKK is currently
carrying out the greatest communist uprising in the region, and str ong
precautions need to be taken. That is why its intellectual foundation
has to be eradicated, as no organization lacking an intellectual basis
can survive. In that event, we will have dried up the swamp breeding
grounds rather than trying to swat mosquitoes one by one.
Do you think that Israel is opposed to recognizing the Armenian
genocide, and why? Do you think that Turkey will ever recognize the
genocide, and does present-day Armenia (and Armenians) need it?
Everybody needs to stop the body count. If we try and count all
the bodies that will go on for centuries, we will be laying the
groundwork for feelings of enmity. Those who suggest these things
actually want enmity. If we start revealing what happened in 1915,
who ASALA murdered or what happened in Hodjali, then we can never
achieve friendship, love and brotherhood.
Insha’Allah we will leave the past behind. There is forgiveness in
the Qur’an. Allah reveals that it is better even to forgive people
who have killed. There is forgiveness and tolerance also in the New
Testament. We prefer the path of forgiveness. We give up our rights
to our brothers. If we exceeded our brothers’ rights in the past,
may them give up their rights to us. Let us start a brand new era by
us. We have no wish to pick over the past. We have no interest in the
past. Even if we do look back to the past, those who did those things
are no lo nger with us, there is a whole new generation. Are we to
hold our spotless Armenian brothers responsible for the cruelties
perpetrated by ASALA? Is that at all acceptable? We are not acting
with the mindset of the 1800s or the 1900s. We are acting with the
mindset, love, forgiveness, tolerance and compassion of the 2000s. We
are looking to the future and asking what we can do in the future. We
want to build a bright future. We want our business, trade, artistic
and scientific activities to be inter-related. We need one another in
art, science, technology and all spheres. Why should we be divided? Let
us fund universities, factories and scientific centers together. Let
art and science flourish. The days of iron curtains and stone walls
are over. We want them to be torn down. The future will be bright
and delightful for our Armenian brothers and the Turkish nation. The
Russians, Georgians, Abkhazians, Azeris and everyone will be able to
live at ease. We all need to make our love and friendship, respect,
interest, concern and protection felt to one another. There needs to be
a complete spirit of brotherhood. It is essential to live by religious
moral values if brotherhood is to be rebuilt. In the Qur’an, Allah
commands Muslims always to respond to evil with good. He says that
the other person will then become a close friend. Christians are told
to love one another, love their neighbor and get on with one20another
in the Bible. It says that love never wrongs its neighbor. It tells
believers to love their neighbors and seek their well-being in order
to improve their souls. If we approach one another with that love then,
by Allah’s leave, there is no problem that cannot be resolved.
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress
