Author: Kamalian Hagop

ARMENIAN NPP’S TEMPORARY SHUTDOWN TO HAVE NO IMPACT ON POWER SUPPLY SYSTEM

ARKA
Sep 16, 2008

YEREVAN, September 16. /ARKA/. Armenia’s power supply system will
not suffer from the temporary shutdown of the country’s nuclear power
packaget, reported Gagik Markosyan, director of Armenian NPP.

The major repairs will take 85 days. Armenia’s NPP has been operating
properly since it was last repaired in 1995, according to Markosyan.

This year specialists will check all the pipes and wash the steam
generator to guarantee the safety of NPP. Some six years ago major
repairs of the NPP took 90-120 days, depending on what kind of problem
the power generating unit had.

NPP will be supplied with fuel soon, Markosyan said.

The only operating unit with a Russian nuclear reactor generates
about 50% of Armenia’s electric power.

In the coming five years, the Armenia NPP will be under the trust
management of the INTER RAO UES CJSC. According to specialists,
the Armenian NPP in Metsamor can operate until 2016.

Turkish Press
Sept 13 2008

Sowing The Seeds

Published: 9/13/2008
BY SOLI OZEL

SABAH- The crisis in the Caucasus has shifted almost all actors’
strategic calculations and also led to unexpected lessons. For
example, Russia, which won the war, is now facing unprecedented
pressure. Since the start of the conflict the value of Russia’s stock
exchange plummeted $290 billion and it also lost capital totaling $21
billion. Now we’re no longer talking about the Soviet Union, which
opted out of capitalism, and so Russian capitalists and elite have to
deal with these realities of life. Official statements saying that
relations with NATO would continue should be evaluated with this in
mind.

Following the crisis, the US started to take diplomatic measures using
its limited power and possibilities in the region. Its reaction was
moderate. The US found it necessary to send money in order to protect
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili’s power and restore the
country, because US foreign policy can’t risk a big conflict with
Russia. So a policy of reconciliation emerging in this context should
come as no surprise. In this respect, Turkey’s moves show a search for
diplomacy in line with the new balances and realities in the region.

If President Abdullah Gul’s recent visit to Armenia yields results, so
frustrating opponents of the move, and diplomatic relations are
established, Ankara will be able to play a founding role in new
regional equations. According to a survey done by Metropoll, a large
majority of the Turkish public approved of the visit and wants
Turkish-Armenian relations to improve. So if the government continues
this initiative, it won’t incur a political cost, but will win many
points both at home and abroad.

If this initiative is supported by Russia, as Sabah daily’s Yavuz
Baydar claims, we can say that all the actors in the region are
looking for a new balance. The emergence of a structure from this
search, which is the aim of the Caucasian cooperation platform
proposed by Turkey, will require complex diplomatic moves, political
determination, and good will. After Georgia, Azerbaijan is the country
which has suffered the most from this conflict. As Paul Goble of the
Azerbaijan Diplomatic Academy wrote, 10 assumptions which shaped
Baku’s foreign policy in the post-Cold War era have collapsed. Among
these is the assumption that Turkey would support Azerbaijan against
Russia.

As Goble wrote, of course Turkey wouldn’t withhold its support in
countering threats to Azerbaijan. But Azerbaijan must have realized
that unsolved problems could one day explode just like a land
mine. Accordingly, solving the Karabakh issue carries great
importance. During his current visit to Azerbaijan, Gul should explain
the Armenia initiative to reassure the Azeris. So the three countries’
foreign ministers’ plan to meet during the UN General Assembly in New
York is right in this respect, but Turkey’s efforts alone aren’t
enough to solve this issue. Obviously, the US, which placed great
importance on the Armenia visit, will support efforts to find a
solution. If Russia does the same, this will ensure that Turkey’s
efforts bear fruit.

Turkish Press
Sept 13 2008

Coe On Turkish President’s Visit To Armenia
Published: 9/13/2008

STRASBOURG – Heads of Turkish and Armenian delegations at the Congress
of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe (COE) have
welcomed Turkish President Abdullah Gul`s visit to Armenia to watch a
World Cup qualifier between Turkish and Armenian national teams in
Yerevan on September 6th.

Yavuz Mildon, chairman of the Congress of European Local Authorities
and also head of the Turkish delegation, issued a joint statement with
Emin Yeritsian, deputy chairman of the congress who also heads the
Armenian delegation.

"The visit will constitute a productive opportunity to develop
friendly relations between the two countries. President Gul`s visit
provided new perspective for development of good neighborly relations
and cooperation between local authorities of the two countries. The
two countries should not miss such an opportunity," the statement
read.

Turan news agency, Azerbaijan
Sept 4 2008

The intriguing visit of Cheney to Baku

The prompt visit to Baku of US Vice President Dick Cheney during his
swift tour along the Azerbaijan-Georgia-Ukraine-Italy route, which
became an event of an extraordinary significance, actually proceeded
under the veil of secrecy. In essence, for the first time such a
mighty, impressive and special mission from Washington, led by the
second man of the US administration, arrived in Azerbaijan.

Visit of multiple meaning

In other – calmer and "safer" time, such a high-ranking visit would
have gone in a superpompous festive atmosphere and official mass media
outlets of the country would have tried to squeeze maximum propaganda
effect out of it. Under the current confrontational situation, by
virtue of sharply increasing geopolitical risks in the region and
threats, the visit of Cheney went on in everyday working, strictly
confidential mode with lack of information.

>From condensed and vague information of the White House administration
ahead of the visit followed to obtain that the key topics of the
negotiations between Dick Cheney and Ilham Aliyev would be the
situation around Georgia, cooperation between Washington and Baku in
the fight against threats of terror, the issues of energy and the
delivery of energy resources to world markets, the settlement of the
Nagornyy Karabakh problem as well as issues of democracy and supremacy
of laws in the light of the upcoming [on 15 October] presidential
election in Azerbaijan.

According to the same source, the visits of Cheney to Azerbaijan,
Georgia and Ukraine were aimed at "assuring them of remaining
deep-rooted US interest in the region and its firm intention to keep
cooperating over them". "The appearance of US Vice President Cheney in
places where he has not been so far is a sign of support. I would not
underestimate the importance of such a signal by the vice president
and the president, who considered it important to send Cheney there
with such a mission in the middle of such a crisis," a high-ranking
representative of the US State Department said.

USA to stand firm behind the allies

In his words, in the region, where Cheney is visiting, the USA "is
firmly intended to strengthen cooperation in both economic and
political as well as in security spheres". Upon arrival in Baku of the
high-level delegation from the USA, Cheney’s national security aide,
John Hanna, said briefly that the key aim of the visit is to
demonstrate the US interest in security and stability in this part of
the hemisphere. "The US administration attaches great significance to
this swift visit of Cheney."

In Baku the US vice president had meetings with heads of the leading
oil companies (in particular, BP) which once more time demonstrated
priority of the hidden energy motive of the visit, and then he had
intensive tête-à-tête talks with President Ilham Aliyev. A brief press
report was released at the end of the talks. Cheney did not hide that
his visit was to demonstrate the US support to its partners in the CIS
[the Commonwealth of Independent States]. Cheney said that the Russian
military operation against Georgia and one-sided recognition of South
Ossetia and Abkhazia by Moscow added to significance of the visit.

The USA is deeply interested in welfare of its allies in the Caucasus
region, the US vice president said.. "President Bush has sent me here
with a precise message to the people of Azerbaijan and the whole
region: the USA has deep and firm interests in your wellbeing and
security," he said. Cheney also added that the USA wants to cooperate
with Azerbaijan for the development of extra routes of exporting
energy resources.

Russia threats US interests in the region

"The USA is convinced that together with European countries and
Turkey, we have to work with Azerbaijan and other countries of
Caucasus and Central Asia over extra routes of exporting energy
resources which will secure their free flow," said he.

So the intriguing visit of Cheney has taken place and it remains to
guess how far the negotiations turned out to be productive and to what
extend the sides (Baku and Washington) have reached understanding and
remained satisfied with the outcome of the meetings. Time will show
it.

In the light of extreme escalation of tension in the region and
dangerous confrontation between the West (USA) and Russia, the visit
of Cheney to Baku (and further on to Tbilisi and Kiev) caused special
interests and was full of intriguing underlying motives.

The swift tour with lack of information in the context of complexity
(entanglement) of the situation that has emerged in the region,
ambiguity of the future development of the situation and ambiguous
"silence" of official Baku do not allow us to unambiguously assess the
outcome of the visit and form well-grounded predictions.

At the same time, one aspect is out of question: the USA has perceived
the "anti-GUAM [the alliance of Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and
Moldova] assault" of Russia started in Georgia as a very serious
threat to own geopolitical and energy interests and is intended to
maximum attach efforts to maintain security of own allies in the
post-Soviet space and lead alternative oil and gas projects to logical
end.

It is also clear that in this global geopolitical and energy battle of
the West (USA) with Russia, an important role is given to Azerbaijan
which will hardly manage to keep silent and sit on the fence in the
current conditions. Baku is also facing the burden of the complicated
choice.

MINISTERS AGREE TO CLOSER SWISS-TURKISH TIES

Swissinfo
Sept 11 2008
Switzerland

Switzerland and Turkey have agreed to strengthen ties in energy,
migration, counter-terrorism and fighting organised crime.

The two countries signed an extension to their 2001 memorandum of
understanding in Bern on Thursday stating they would hold future
talks on the issues.

Swiss foreign minister Micheline Calmy-Rey noted that the partnership
had great potential. She also praised renewed dialogue efforts
between Turkey and Armenia, damaged as a result of the mass killing
of Armenians in 1915.

The Armenians say Ottoman Turks slaughtered up to 1.8 million Armenians
in a planned genocide, a charge Turkey disputes.

The Council of Europe, the French parliament and the Swiss House of
Representatives have all since recognised the events as genocide. The
question has long affected relations between Switzerland and Turkey,
including the postponing of official visits.

In 2007, the Lausanne district court fined Turkish politician Dogu
Perincek for denying the killings were genocide during a public speech
in the city in 2005.

Speaking in Bern on Thursday, Turkish foreign minister Ali Babacan
said politicians needed to be forward-looking and "history needed to
be written by historians".

RUSSIA’S MOVE TO RECOGNIZE SEPARATIST REPUBLICS IN BAKU’S FAVOUR

Yeni Musavat
Aug 28 2008
Azerbaijan

An Azerbaijani opposition newspaper has said that the recent move
by the Kremlin to recognize the independence of the separatist
Georgian republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia is in favour of
Azerbaijan in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Armenia as Russia
may be sidelined from the settlement of the conflict in future. "As
for other impacts on the Karabakh issue, Russia’s unilateral step is
actually in favour of Azerbaijan. First, it has clearly demonstrated
that the West, the UN and the OSCE have a different approach to the
ethnic territorial conflicts in the Caucasus as compared to the Kosovo
issue. It has stamped the idea that Russia is the main guarantor
for separatism in the post-Soviet area, has torn up the civil mask
of this neo-imperialist state and has shown a dangerous appetite of
this country to occupy the territories of other countries. In all,
it has made the West wake up.

The mentioned and unmentioned counter-measures are likely to
follow. Among such measures may be refusal from Russian "peacemakers"
in similar conflicts, including in Karabakh," opposition Yeni Musavat
newspaper said. The following is the text of Zahid Safaroglu’s report
in Yeni Musavat newspaper on 28 August 2008 headlined "Russia has been
left alone" and subheaded "The latest moves of the Kremlin may work for
Azerbaijan strategically". Subheadings have been inserted editorially.

Russia has failed to behave in the way the West did on the Kosovo
issue. No serious country or international organization has provided
support to the Kremlin, which unilaterally recognized the independence
of Abkhazia and South Ossetia several days ago. Even its satellites
Armenia, Belarus and Serbia did not dare to make the same step to
place themselves against the entire world. They either kept silent
or like Belgrade viewed Russia’s decision as unacceptable.

Denouncement

The United Nations Organization, the Council of Europe, the
European Union, NATO and self-respecting reputable countries have
sharply denounced Russia’s move and blamed it for rude negligence
of international norms and principles as was expected. Even some
threatened Moscow with sanctions.

Let us agree that these are serious consequences. To be specific,
this is a lesson for the Kremlin. But it was the other way round in
the Kosovo example: tens of countries and international organizations
recognized Kosovo’s independence and established political and
diplomatic relations with that region in one day. The difference is so
big and monumental. This difference has clearly proved that Russia’s
reputation in the world is worse that it seems and it has been left
without any serious allies. This demonstrated that there is no need
respecting or trusting this gangster country.

Sanctions

A second important consequence is that the process has newly started
and is moving towards the political and economic isolation of our
northern neighbour. The world’s super powers, which determine the
global policy the USA, the United Kingdom, Germany and France are
braced to apply sanctions against Russia. There is a big likelihood
that our northern neighbour will be evicted from the OSCE and the
Council of Europe and will be deprived of the right to host the
Olympic Games in Sochi in 2012.

But these are small sanctions. There will be more, of course. We think
that the most serious sanction will be to refuse oil and gas from
Russia, which is a pride for the Russians, as much as possible and
create domestic problems for Russia, a country of raw material. German
Chancellor Angela Merkel made such an announcement two days ago
[26 August].

Traps

Other big traps are waiting for "the Russian bear". For example, Moscow
explains its decision [to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and
South Ossetia] with the fact that an act of genocide was committed in
South Ossetia like the one in Kosovo. But the international community
knows that it is not true. It was the other way round because Russians
committed outrages and looting against the Georgian population like
the aggressive Armenians once did in Karabakh, Xocali and Malibayli
[both are villages in Nagorno-Karabakh] by means of ethnic cleansing.

And it is clear that the decision made by the Hague Tribunal will not
be in favour of Moscow if these issues are taken to the international
court (is not the Hague Tribunal owned by the West?). It should be
noted that Tbilisi is preparing such an appeal. By the way, Azerbaijan
should also start the same process against the Armenians without any
delay because facts of ethnic cleansing and genocide play an extremely
important role in the issue of self-determination.

As for other impacts on the Karabakh issue, Russia’s unilateral
step is actually in favour of Azerbaijan. First of all because it
has clearly demonstrated that the West, the UN and the OSCE have a
different approach to the ethnic territorial conflicts in the Caucasus
as compared to the Kosovo issue.

It has stamped the idea that Russia is the main guarantor for
separatism in the post-Soviet area, has torn up the civil mask of
this neo-imperialist state and has shown a dangerous appetite of this
country to occupy the territories of other countries. In all, it has
made the West wake up. The mentioned and unmentioned counter-measures
are likely to follow. Among such measures may be refusal from Russian
"peace makers" in similar conflicts, including in Karabakh.

Russia respects Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity

Another factor that works for us is that we are confident that Moscow,
who has been forced to repent for recognizing the independence
of Abkhazia and South Ossetia and has actually been left alone,
will not risk repeating a similar step for a long time; it will not
have the willingness to take the same "fatal" route in the Karabakh,
Dniester and Crimea issues; it will try to establish more careful
relations with Baku, Kiev and Chisinau. We are not mentioning the
fact that Russia does not officially have a military contingent in
Karabakh and the Kremlin has not blamed and is not blaming Azerbaijan
for any act of genocide. In other words, the same excuses can not be
used for us. Yesterday [27 August] Russian ambassador [to Azerbaijan]
Vasiliy Istratov said that Russia respects Azerbaijan’s territorial
integrity and there has been no change in this position. This statement
may also be viewed as a soft sign that the Kremlin is being isolated.

"Needless independence"

The mentioned issues are extremely important details and geopolitical
truths. In any case, new details are better than rotten clarity no
matter how painful they are. This is because the new situation requires
new and specific decisions, which are going to be big. Why? [Georgian
President Mikheil] Saakashvili showed one of the reasons in his appeal
to the people: "Moscow with its move has attempted to forcibly change
the map of the world again for the first time after the period of
Lenin and Stalin." Naturally, the free world will not let it happen.

At the end I would like to repeat the conclusion we gave in our
previous issue: who needs the independence, which is not recognized
by the strong and rich West? Unfortunately Abkhaz and Ossetian
peoples have discredited themselves in the eyes of the free world by
being towed by the Russian policy. There is a natural question: what
kind of independence is it if the leaders of the separatist regimes
supported by the Kremlin can not pay visits to Western countries,
establish economic and commercial relations and set up embassies
there, as well as can not have the say in the OSCE, the UN and the
Council of Europe? It seems to be the reason why even Armenia did not
recognize them. So, Azerbaijan must continue its pro-Western policy
more confidently and must not derail.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: USA SUPPORTS INITIATIVES AND ATTEMPTS OF TURKEY FOR KARABAKH CONFLICT SETTLEMENT

ArmInfo
2008-09-11 18:11:00

ArmInfo. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Turkish Foreign
Minister Ali Babacan have discussed recent events in the Caucasus,
CNN Turk TV channel reported.

Condoleezza Rice said the USA supports initiatives and attempts of
Turkey for Karabakh conflict settlement. Over the telephone talk to
US secretary of state Ali Babacan said settlement of the Karabakh
conflict will positively affect the Turkish-Armenian relations as well.

RIGHT OF NATIONS TO SELF-DETERMINATION PRESENTED MORE PRECISELY IN FUNDAMENTAL RECORD

PanARMENIAN.Net
10.09.2008 17:21 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Both the right of nations to self-determination
and the principle of territorial integrity are subject to political
conjuncture, Andrey Areshev, expert at Strategic Culture Foundation
said in an interview with PanARMENIAN.Net.

"However, the right of nations to self-determination is presented more
precisely in fundamental record. Developing during previous centuries
as a political principle (legitimation of new states, including the
U.S.), after World War II it was included in the list of basic laws
fixed in the UN Regulations. It was further developed in the 1970
Declaration on Principles of International Law," he said.

"The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
says: 1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue
of that right they freely determine their political status and freely
pursue their economic, social and cultural development. 2. All
peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural
wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising
out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle
of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people
be deprived of its own means of subsistence. 3. The States Parties
to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for
the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories,
shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination,
and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of
the Charter of the United Nations.

Of course, the principle of territorial integrity is also mentioned but
no document speaks of domination of one principle over the other. The
principle of territorial integrity can’t be exercise in the states
which do not ensure equality of the nations living in it and do not
allow free self-determination of these nations.

The Helsinki Final Act, 1975, says that all of 10 principles are
fundamental, these being: Sovereign equality, respect for the rights
inherent in sovereignty; Refraining from the threat of use of force;
Inviolability of frontiers; Territorial integrity of states; Peaceful
settlement of disputes; Non-intervention in internal affairs;
Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the
freedom of thought, conscience, religion, or belief; Equal rights
and self-determination of peoples; Co-operation among states; and
Fulfillment in good faith of obligations under international law,"
Areshev reminded.

"Attacking Kuwait in early 1990-ies, Iraq violated the territorial
integrity of a state. As to Karabakh, Abkhazia and Ossetia, here
we deal with expression of will of the nations and actions taken
in compliance with the operating legislation while the military
operations appear as a rebuff of aggression, what is approved by the
UN Regulations," he said.

ARMENIAN PURCHASE PLAN FOR RUSSIAN ROUGH STILL ROCKY
by John Helmer

RusData Dialine – Russian Press Digest
September 10, 2008 Wednesday

Despite optimism in Armenia that Russian rough will soon be supplied
in greater volumes to the Armenian cutting industry, the supply
position remains uncertain, and volumes restricted. An announcement
from Yerevan, the Armenian capital, recently indicated that Smolensk
Kristall, Russia’s largest polisher, would supply between 6,000 and
7,000 carats by the end of this year. But additional sources of supply
from Russia are doubtful, and Kristall cannot increase its volume.

Gagik Kocharian, head of Trade Policy and Domestic Market Regulation
at the Armenian Economics Ministry, revealed the Kristall commitment
has been agreed with the Diamond Company of Armenia (DCA). He also
noted that the first consignment of 650 carats of diamonds has been
despatched.

An inter-government agreement between Moscow and Yerevan used to
provide supply of up to 6,000 carats per annum on deferred payment
or tolling-fee terms. Direct sales at prevailing market prices are
very small, because of the limited financial capacity of the Armenian
cutters.

Ararat Evoyan, executive director of the Russian Association of Diamond
Manufacturers, said that, under the regulations in place since 2001,
Russian manufacturers have the right, subject to government licensing
approval, to sell or process by tolling contract up to 15% of their
total rough purchases.

Out-sourcing for stones that are not profitable to cut in the Russian
plants is what the Armenians cutters want. Tolling terms limits their
financial exposure, as the stones must be returned to the supplier,
leaving the Armenian cutters with a tolling fee for processing,
and throughput for their production lines.

The Kristall agreement, Evoyan believes, is a tolling arrangement
under the 15% proviso in the regulations. Alrosa cannot supply Armenia
with rough on tolling contract, because it is a mining company, not
a processing enterprise. Various alternatives for Alrosa to supply
the Armenian cutters have been in discussion for months, but without
concrete outcome.

Evoyan said that the Russian manufacturers would like the government
in Moscow to permit a larger volume of stones to be supplied to
Armenia on tolling contracts. "There have been no results, yet,"
he told PolishedPrices.

TURKEY’S PRESIDENT: WE, ALL THE COUNTRIES OF THE REGION, SHOULD LOOK FORWARD

ArmInfo
2008-09-09 16:42:00

ArmInfo. Important countries of the region should take measures to
solve issues via dialogue, Turkish President Abdullah Gul said in an
interview with APA when commenting of the recent military actions in
Georgia and his visit to Yerevan.

‘Our Prime Minister Erdogan visited Russia, Georgia and Azerbaijan
and discussed these issues. There was a random chance during the
world qualifying championship. Turkish and Armenian national teams
were at the same group. After this, Armenian president invited me to
Yerevan. It demands courage to say to Turkish President to come and
to watch the match together.

We know that there occurs dashnaks and other groups, which are against
this issue. Why did I receive this invitation? I believed in creation
of chance to conduct discussions to solve problems in the region. I
wanted to seize this occasion for the discussion of Nagorno Karabagh
conflict and problems between Turkey and Armenia. To tell the truth,
I was satisfied with the realization of this visit, because state
figures should measure thrice and cut once and take any decisive step
afterwards. If we freeze the problem, it will be worse and worse. Then
these frozen problems become de facto.

Therefore, state figures should conduct discussions hardily. We all
look like each other in this small land as Caucasus. The majori ty
speaks Turkish in the region or understands this language one should
move this potential ahead and find solution to the problems. During
my visit, I very openly talked to president Sargsyan on these
issues. I talked to him more openly about all what I am talking to
you and stressed the importance of resolution of the conflict between
Azerbaijan and Armenia’, – Gul said. He also added two issues were
discussed within the frames of his visit, one of which was Nagornyy
Karabakh conflict. ‘Sargsyan also supported solution to the problems in
the region and expressed satisfaction with our participation in this
process. They supported Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Platform,
assessed it as an opportunity for the solution to the problems in the
region and stressed the importance of conducting dialogue after the
developments in Georgia. Sargsyan stated that he had met with Ilham
Aliyev and would meet henceforth. I told Sargsyan that we should be
realist. Dialogue should be conducted to overcome of the problems. If
it is not conducted at present, it will be 30-40 years later and it
will cause problems to the future generations. I saw that Sargsyan
spoke sincerely. I left Yerevan with great pleasure. There can be
those, who were against this visit in Turkey and Azerbaijan and I
respect them. I am sure that these initiatives will achieve good
results and they will also be happy. 50 million people died during
World War II in Europe, but Germany and France are closer allies
at present. We should look at the future, not only past and should
open doors for the future. He also added he passed an independent
decision to visit Yerevan. ‘No country influenced on me in regard to
my decision.

However, I am pleased to receive estimation from several
countries. Armenia has understood that it is obliged to cooperate
with neighboring countries, as well as the whole world. Otherwise,
there will not be peace in the region and Armenia can be assessed as
the country standing on the way of peace. I believe in good assessment
of this chance in the image of Sargsyan. Old policy should be left
behind. We should look forward as regional countries’, – he said and
added: ‘I sent my bodyguards and vehicle to Armenia through Georgia,
not via Kars in order not to hurt feelings of Azerbaijani People’.